24 March 20
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24 March 20
Anthony Fauci: 'I'm Going to Keep Pushing.' On Trying to Make the White House Listen to Facts of the Pandemic
Jon Cohen, Science
Cohen writes: "Anthony Fauci, who to many watching the now-regular White House press briefings on the pandemic, has become the scientific voice of reason about how to respond to the new coronavirus."
nthony Fauci, who to many watching the now-regular White House press briefings on the pandemic has become the scientific voice of reason about how to respond to the new coronavirus, runs from place to place in normal times and works long hours. Now, the director of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases has even less time to sleep and travels at warp speed, typically racing daily from his office north of Washington, D.C., to his home in the capital, and then to the White House to gather with the Coronavirus Task Force in the Situation Room. He then usually flanks President Donald Trump addressing the media—and when he isn’t there, concerned tweets begin immediately. Shortly before he planned to head to the White House for a task force meeting today, he phoned ScienceInsider for a speedy chat. This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.
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Jon Cohen, Science
Cohen writes: "Anthony Fauci, who to many watching the now-regular White House press briefings on the pandemic, has become the scientific voice of reason about how to respond to the new coronavirus."
nthony Fauci, who to many watching the now-regular White House press briefings on the pandemic has become the scientific voice of reason about how to respond to the new coronavirus, runs from place to place in normal times and works long hours. Now, the director of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases has even less time to sleep and travels at warp speed, typically racing daily from his office north of Washington, D.C., to his home in the capital, and then to the White House to gather with the Coronavirus Task Force in the Situation Room. He then usually flanks President Donald Trump addressing the media—and when he isn’t there, concerned tweets begin immediately. Shortly before he planned to head to the White House for a task force meeting today, he phoned ScienceInsider for a speedy chat. This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.
Q: The first question everyone has is how are you?
A: Well, I’m sort of exhausted. But other than that, I’m good. I mean, I’m not, to my knowledge, coronavirus infected. To my knowledge, I haven’t been fired [laughs].
Q: How are you managing to not get fired?
A: Well, that’s pretty interesting because to [Trump’s] credit, even though we disagree on some things, he listens. He goes his own way. He has his own style. But on substantive issues, he does listen to what I say.
Q: You’ve been in press conferences where things are happening that you disagree with, is that fair to say?
A: Well, I don’t disagree in the substance. It is expressed in a way that I would not express it, because it could lead to some misunderstanding about what the facts are about a given subject.
Q: You stood nearby while President Trump was in the Rose Garden shaking hands with people. You’re a doctor. You must have had a reaction like, “Sir, please don’t do that.”
A: Yes, I say that to the task force. I say that to the staff. We should not be doing that. Not only that—we should be physically separating a bit more on those press conferences. To his credit, the vice president [Mike Pence] is really pushing for physical separation of the task force [during meetings]. He keeps people out of the room—as soon as the room gets like more than 10 people or so, it’s, “Out, everybody else out, go to a different room.” So with regard to the task force, the vice president is really a bear in making sure that we don’t crowd 30 people into the Situation Room, which is always crowded. So, he’s definitely adhering to that. The situation on stage [for the press briefings] is a bit more problematic. I keep saying, “Is there any way we can get a virtual press conference?” Thus far, no. But when you’re dealing with the White House, sometimes you have to say things one, two, three, four times, and then it happens. So, I’m going to keep pushing.
Q: You’re standing there saying nobody should gather with more than 10 people and there are almost 10 people with you on the stage. And there are certainly more than 10 journalists there asking questions.
A: I know that. I’m trying my best. I cannot do the impossible.
Q: What about the travel restrictions? Trump keeps saying that the travel ban for China, which began 2 February, had a big impact on slowing the spread of the virus to the United States and that he wishes China would have told us 3 to 4 months earlier and that they were “very secretive.” (China did not immediately reveal the discovery of a new coronavirus in late December 2019, but by 10 January, Chinese researchers made the sequence of the virus public.) It just doesn’t comport with facts.
A: I know, but what do you want me to do? I mean, seriously Jon, let’s get real, what do you want me to do?
Q: Most everyone thinks that you’re doing a remarkable job, but you’re standing there as the representative of truth and facts, and things are being said that aren’t true and aren’t factual.
A: The way it happened is that after he made that statement [suggesting China could have revealed the discovery of a new coronavirus 3 to 4 months earlier], I told the appropriate people, it doesn’t comport, because 2 or 3 months earlier would have been September. The next time they sit down with him and talk about what he’s going to say, they will say, “By the way, Mr. President, be careful about this and don’t say that.” But I can’t jump in front of the microphone and push him down. OK, he said it. Let’s try and get it corrected for the next time.
Q: You have not said China virus. (Trump frequently calls the cause of the spreading illness known as coronavirus disease 2019 a “China virus” or a “Chinese virus.”)
A: Ever.
Q: And you never will, will you?
A: No.
Q: I’m curious about some things that aren’t happening on a national scale. One is, why are shelter in place orders happening state by state? Why are we doing this sequentially? Is that a mistake?
A: No, I don’t think we could say it’s a mistake or not a mistake. There is a discussion and a delicate balance about what’s the overall impact of shutting everything down completely for an indefinite period of time. So, there’s a compromise. If you knock down the economy completely and disrupt infrastructure, you may be causing health issues, unintended consequences, for people who need to be able to get to places and can’t. You do the best you can. I’ve emphasized very emphatically at every press conference, that everybody in the country, at a minimum, should be following the fundamental guidelines. Elderly, stay out of society in self isolation. Don’t go to work if you don’t have to. Yada, yada, yada. No bars, no restaurants, no nothing. Only essential services. When you get a place like New York or Washington or California, you have got to ratchet it up. But it is felt—and it isn’t me only speaking, it’s a bunch of people who make the decisions—that if you lock down everything now, you’re going to crash the whole society. So, you do what you can do, as best as you can. Do as much physical separation as you can and ratchet it up at the places you know are at highest risk.
Q: But I heard a guy say, if you think you’re doing too much, you’re probably doing the right amount.
A: That’s me.
Q: I know it’s you. The “15 Days to Slow the Spread” campaign doesn’t mention religious gatherings. I know Pence mentioned them yesterday. But why aren’t they on the 15 days recommendations? All these other places are mentioned.
A: It was implied in no crowds of more than 10 people. But you’re right, crowds in church are important and every time I get a chance to say it, I mention it. I can’t really criticize them strongly for that at all. When you say less than 10, it makes common sense that it involves the church. I say it publicly and even the vice president has said it publicly.
Q: What happens before each press conference? What do you do as a group?
A: We’re in the task force. We sit down for an hour and a half, go over all the issues on the agenda. And then we proceed from there to an anteroom right in front of the Oval Office to talk about what are going to be the messages, what are the kind of things we’re going to want to emphasize? Then we go in to see the president, we present [our consensus] to him and somebody writes a speech. Then he gets up and ad libs on his speech. And then we’re up there to try and answer questions.
Q: At Friday’s press conference, you put your hands over your face when Trump referred to the “deep State Department” (a popular conspiracy theory). It’s even become an internet meme. Have you been criticized for what you did?
A: No comment.
Q: We’ve seen creative ideas about how to respond in other countries that we aren’t adopting. China uses thermometers at supermarkets before letting people in. Should we be considering that?
A: Yes, of course. I think the logistics of that have to be worked out. That was discussed. All these things are discussed. Not all of them are implemented. This is something that should be considered. I will bring it up at the next task force meeting and see whether there’s some sort of a logistical, bureaucratic reason why it can’t be done. The rationale for doing it is at least worth serious consideration.
Q: Big picture: We’ve had all this pandemic preparedness. Why did this fail? What went wrong?
A: I think we’ll have to wait until it is over and we look back before we can answer that. It’s almost like the fog of war. After the war is over, you then look back and say, “Wow, this plan, as great as it was, didn’t quite work once they started throwing hand grenades at us.” It really is similar to that. Obviously, testing [for the new coronavirus] is one clear issue that needs to be relooked at. Why were we not able to mobilize on a broader scale? But I don’t think we can do that right now. I think it’s premature. We really need to look forward.
Q: Right now, why do we have a travel ban on visitors from China when there are few cases in China other than imported cases? What’s the logic?
A: I’m sorry. I was just looking at two text messages, one from a governor and one from the White House. I gotta get off.
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Representatives Ayanna Pressley, Ilhan Omar and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. (photo: Mandel Ngan/Getty Images)
Reps Ilhan Omar and Ayanna Pressley Propose Massive Student Debt Relief Plan Ahead of Recession
Anne Branigin, The Root
Branigin writes: "On Monday, Congresswomen Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) and Ayanna Pressley (D-Mass.) proposed an ambitious plan that would be a financial game-changer for millions of Americans: alleviating student debt."
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Anne Branigin, The Root
Branigin writes: "On Monday, Congresswomen Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) and Ayanna Pressley (D-Mass.) proposed an ambitious plan that would be a financial game-changer for millions of Americans: alleviating student debt."
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An immigrant detention center. (photo: ABC)
ALSO SEE: ICE Detainee Says Migrants Are Going on a Hunger Strike for Soap
Former ICE Director: Release Immigrants From Detention or COVID-19 Will Spread Like Wildfire Inside
Democracy Now!
Excerpt: "Immigrants at three jails in New Jersey are now on hunger strikes over unsanitary conditions that put them at high risk during the pandemic. We hear from a detained person on hunger strike and speak with John Sandweg, former acting director of ICE during the Obama administration."
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Democracy Now!
Excerpt: "Immigrants at three jails in New Jersey are now on hunger strikes over unsanitary conditions that put them at high risk during the pandemic. We hear from a detained person on hunger strike and speak with John Sandweg, former acting director of ICE during the Obama administration."
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Traders work on the floor at the New York Stock Exchange. (photo: Spencer Platt/Getty Images)
Don't Panic Over Your 401(k). It's Time to Emotionally Distance From the Markets
Suzanne McGee, Guardian UK
McGee writes: "Studying your shrinking 401(k) balance and panicking won't help. Instead, take a step back and distance your emotions from the market's gyrations with this generational guide to getting through this frightening period."
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Suzanne McGee, Guardian UK
McGee writes: "Studying your shrinking 401(k) balance and panicking won't help. Instead, take a step back and distance your emotions from the market's gyrations with this generational guide to getting through this frightening period."
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Travelers waited for flights at Jorge Chávez International Airport in Lima, Peru, minutes before the border was closed last week. (photo: Luka Gonzales/Agence France-Presse/Getty Images)
State Department Under Fire as 13K Americans Remain Stranded Abroad
Laura Kelly, The Hill
Kelly writes: "The State Department is facing the unprecedented challenge of trying to bring home thousands of Americans stranded around the world, as countries shutter their borders to stop the rapid spread of coronavirus."
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Laura Kelly, The Hill
Kelly writes: "The State Department is facing the unprecedented challenge of trying to bring home thousands of Americans stranded around the world, as countries shutter their borders to stop the rapid spread of coronavirus."
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A paramilitary group in Colombia. (photo: InSight Crime)
Colombian Death Squads Exploiting Coronavirus Lockdown to Kill Activists
Joe Parkin Daniels, Guardian UK
Daniels writes: "When cities across the country introduced local quarantine measures last week, three social leaders were killed, and as the country prepares to impose a national lockdown on Wednesday, activists have warned that more murders will follow."
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Joe Parkin Daniels, Guardian UK
Daniels writes: "When cities across the country introduced local quarantine measures last week, three social leaders were killed, and as the country prepares to impose a national lockdown on Wednesday, activists have warned that more murders will follow."
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Elephants walking through tall grass. (photo: Nick Brandt)
New Trump Wildlife Services Appointee Worked for Trophy Hunting Lobby for 20 Years
Olivia Rosane, EcoWatch
Rosane writes: "Anna Seidman, former lawyer for pro-hunting group Safari Club International (SCI), is now the assistant director of the Fish and Wildlife Services (FWS) International Affairs program."
resident Donald Trump's controversial trophy hunting council may have been disbanded, but trophy hunters and their advocates still have influence at the Department of the Interior.
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Olivia Rosane, EcoWatch
Rosane writes: "Anna Seidman, former lawyer for pro-hunting group Safari Club International (SCI), is now the assistant director of the Fish and Wildlife Services (FWS) International Affairs program."
resident Donald Trump's controversial trophy hunting council may have been disbanded, but trophy hunters and their advocates still have influence at the Department of the Interior.
Anna Seidman, former lawyer for pro-hunting group Safari Club International (SCI), is now the assistant director of the Fish and Wildlife Services (FWS) International Affairs program, HuffPost reported Friday.
During her 20 years of work for SCI, Seidman sued FWS several times and testified before Congress that hunters should have greater access to Alaskan wildlife, according to Earther. But she will now be in charge of a program designed to protect endangered species around the world.
"I'm not quite sure how this will happen with someone in charge who's advocated against stripping creatures of these protections," Earther's Yessenia Funes wrote.
Funes pointed out that Seidman's appointment is in keeping with other Trump administration hiring decisions, such as the choice of former coal lobbyist Andrew Wheeler to head the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Seidman's new boss David Bernhardt was also a controversial hire who has so many conflicts of interests he has to keep a notecard on hand to keep track of them.
In an email to HuffPost, an FWS spokesperson called Siedman "an effective, innovative leader with 20 years of legal and policy experience, including expertise in international environment and natural resource management."
Those 20 years were gained at SCI, where Siedman worked from 1999 to 2019 as director of legal advocacy and international affairs, according to her LinkedIn profile.
But SCI's influence in the Trump administration predates Siedman. Bernhardt, in addition to lobbying on behalf of oil and gas interests, also counted SCI's sister organization Safari Club International Foundation as a former client, HuffPost reported. SCI donated $11,000 to Trump's 2016 campaign and was one of the lobbying forces behind the rule change allowing the importation of elephant and lion trophies from Zimbabwe and Zambia. It also auctioned off a hunting trip with Donald Trump Jr. in February, and SCI President Paul Babaz was a member of administration's disbanded trophy-hunting council, according to The Hill.
SCI was founded in 1972 and has more than 50,000 members. It bills itself as "protecting hunters' rights and promoting wildlife conservation," according to HuffPost.
But a 2015 report from the Humane Society of the United States and Humane Society International found that the group had contributed to the deaths of tens of thousands of animals in its 60 years of hunting contests, CBS News reported. That includes 2,000 lions, 1,800 leopards, nearly 800 elephants and 93 black rhinos, the report found.
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